This is not a good analogy, United

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 09/09/2019 at 10:54 • Filed to: Planelopnik, wingspan

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A United Airlines passenger noticed that a block of seats was open on his plane while all the rest of the seats were full. He asked if he could move to one of the vacant seats and his request was denied. So he took to Twitter, in a Tweet that has since been deleted.

United !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in typical airline fashion, basically saying that you can’t have that seat because you didn’t pay the markup for it.

Of course, Kunal wasn’t satisfied with this answer, because nobody was going to come and sit in those seats. The doors were shut, and loading had stopped.

So United !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with this witty analogy. The only problem is that an analogy actually has to be analogous for it to work.

Maybe we just stop having all these ridiculous ways to scrape a few more bucks out of traveler’s pockets by having different tiers of payment for the same seats. I’m flying to NYC in December, and Delta wants to charge me an extra $70 so I can choose my seat ahead of time. Really, Delta?

via !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

fintail > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:00

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Corporations, who are people too (so says a man born on third base), seem to try to hire the most tone-deaf and oblivious people for their twitter/social media work.  Not that all of them are bad, but so many iffy retorts.

ttyymmnn > fintail 09/09/2019 at 11:01

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It’s supposed to be witty, but it comes across as patronizing and arrogant.

Azrek > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:03

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Class Society at its finest.

I had a Priority Board one time, but I went on 9th in the order of Priority Boarding and I was the 3rd seat on the plane. Plane was half full by the time I got on. 

Ash78, voting early and often > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:04

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It’s gotten insane, but most of all it’s made it hard to comparison shop between carriers, and over time. Quite frankly, my frustration levels are so high that I usually choose Southwest just for the consistency and pleasantness. On a 2-3 hour flight, I couldn’t care less about in-seat screens. And when nobody has assigned seats, nobody really feels like a second-class citizen (to be fair, they do have early boarding options, but that’s it). Or third-class. Or fourth-class. It’s gotten idiotic.

My solution: Every airline should be required to quote a price for one checked bag, one carryon, and assigned seats. Everything better or worse should be opted into (or out of) at that point. I’m really hard-pressed to believe that quoting Basic Economy fares is anything but a bait & switch for 80%+ of travelers.

Rule 1 of business is “Don’t piss off your customers at step 1.”

(and think of how good the other 20% will feel when they see their fares come down from opting OUT of baggage)

As far as this story goes -- if those seats are truly empty AND don’t require a higher level of staffing/food/attention (like 1st class), then let people site where they want. I understand United’s policy here, they just f*cked themselves over and it’s their own fault.

fintail > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:07

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It doesn’t just come across that way, it was patronizing and arrogant.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:09

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Someone needs to tell the social media team to always cite weight and balance rules.

facw > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:13

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I mean, I’m surprised people don’t understand that they can’t sit in those seats. It’s not much different than going to a ballgame and being told you have to sit where ticketed as opposed to moving down (of course people do move down, but you can’t complain if an usher stops you or kicks you out).

That said, this is at least partly United problem, they already do free upgrades to first class if there are empty seats, so why not do the same to economy plus if there are open seats (maybe leaving middle seats empty). Alternatively they could do auction pricing on economy plus to make sure it always fills up.

And yeah the Toyota/Lexus comparison is stupid because they can still sell the Lexus, there’s nothing else they can do with a seat once the door closes (though perhaps they could sell discounted upgrades in flight?)

Ash78, voting early and often > For Sweden 09/09/2019 at 11:14

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Yep, that’s the “These are not the droids you are looking for” answer for 99.9% of the flying public.

Of course, the astute ones would be like “Wait, what happens when 5 people line up in the back for the bathroom? Massive stall? Not the bathroom, the wing. ”

OPPOsaurus WRX > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:14

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Toyota should step in and ask what they have against toyotas

For Sweden > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 11:17

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The cabin crew also asks people not to crowd the lavatories , but they can’t deny them boarding in flight.

user314 > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:18

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TheTurbochargedSquirrel > fintail 09/09/2019 at 11:18

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A couple of companies have been able to pull of being snarky on Twitter with good success so now everyone has to try it with the most common result being that they look like tone deaf morons.

For Sweden > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 09/09/2019 at 11:21

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Other companies can be snarky because Wendy’s doesn’t lock you into a pressurized tube and is not responsible for your life in said tube.  However, Wendy’s also has worse food than United.

ranwhenparked > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:21

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A better analogy would be when you book your boss into a room in the Harbour Tower at Harr ah’s for a business trip, and they refuse to move him to the Waterfront Tower after he finds soiled panties in the bathtub and cigarette ash in the sheets, because those are premium rooms.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:22

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So they’re keeping it on brand so kudos to their social media team. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > fintail 09/09/2019 at 11:22

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and 100 more > facw 09/09/2019 at 11:24

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See, you made a FAR better analogy with the baseball seating. 

AestheticsInMotion > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:29

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T he difference between standard economy and the bulkhead seats/emergency seats may not be as stark as that between economy and business, but it still makes for a noticeably better time in the air. I can’t fault United for realizing this and charging accordingly.

Ge tting bumped up is a privilege—and a nice one at that that can be used as a tool to generate goodwill or de- escalate situation s— but e xpecting to get bumped up into a higher class of product than what you paid for just comes off as super entitled.

ttyymmnn > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 11:30

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Our family flies Southwest for all those reasons. The employees actually seem to be enjoying their work.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Azrek 09/09/2019 at 11:30

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Last time I flew Delta(?) I was in Group 8, which I didn’t even know was a thing, and was the only one in that group. I’d say half the plane was in Platinum Whale Shark Diamond class, or whatever it is called, about a quarter were in the next two “special” ones, and then the rest scattered into the 9 (!!!) number groups. Me and the guy (singular) in group 9 had a good laugh about being in the most elite groups on the plane.

AestheticsInMotion > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 09/09/2019 at 11:31

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I would love to take a class in 10 years that focuses on the companies that have managed to use social media to their benefit. It's an interesting topic, and I'm curious in what ways5the successful approaches differ from the disastrous. 

ttyymmnn > ranwhenparked 09/09/2019 at 11:31

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And even better, they refuse to move you to the room next door, which is identical to the one you’re in, because they have found a way to charge a few more dollars for it.

facw > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 11:31

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I once was told I’d need to be bumped from a flight (they said they were bumping in check in order, but I had checked in online the previous day, and had been at LGA for over three hours (my first time flying from the city, didn’t have a good read on how long it would take to get out to the airport)). Apparently they had been told there was a party of six who were all morbidly obese and it was enough to make a real difference weight and balance wise, so they needed to bump people. Luckily it turned out only one of the party was actually huge so they could manage that.

I’ve also been on flights small and/or empty enough that they did actually have to rearrange passengers to get the balance correct.

ttyymmnn > AestheticsInMotion 09/09/2019 at 11:32

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But these aren’t bulkhead or exit row seats. They are just seats for people who are willing to pay a few more bucks for some sort of perk that is irrelevant when the seat is empty. United is just being petty.

facw > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 11:37

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I hate the non-assigned seating in Southwest, but yeah I wish price search engines were more flexible in specifying what you need. Specially I want to be comparing prices for 2 carry ons (large and small) plus being able to select a window seat. Most of them now seem to have options to let you exclude basic economy which gets you close to that, but I still had the problem with regular economy on my most recent trip on United that even though I could select a seat, only the last few rows didn’t carry a premium, and only middle seats were available there, so I ended up spending an extra $23 each way to be able to select a window seat farther up ( not in economy plus, though one was a (non-reclining) seat in the first row behind first-class that was quite spacious)

AestheticsInMotion > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:37

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In the article it states that the empty rows of seats are economy plus. I don’t have experience with United, but most airlines I’ve flown have a pretty big difference between their economy and economy plus seats. IE more padding, more leg room, wider seats, better food and drink, etc.

Urambo Tauro > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:38

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Welp, at least they’re not cutting up thos e seats and throwing them in a dumpster .

ttyymmnn > AestheticsInMotion 09/09/2019 at 11:39

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It is my understanding that the seats were identical. 

AestheticsInMotion > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:41

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Haha well the answer to that would certainly make a difference!

Regardless, the analogy they used sucks

facw > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 09/09/2019 at 11:43

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Hey they sort of got there many months later:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

facw > user314 09/09/2019 at 11:49

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This is missing “group 20-somethings with no indoor voices flirting with the flight attendant rather than sleeping  on an overnight trans-Atlantic flight.” The same flight also featured some guy who was basically Gil from the Simpsons trying to impress some young woman with tales of his business experience in China (he pronounced it “Gina” like our president).

Ash78, voting early and often > facw 09/09/2019 at 11:50

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Or how about “I have two people traveling together, we’d like to sit together but only need one checked bag between us.” They almost can’t even handle that.

The new search process just makes everything more complex than it needs to be. But that’s kind of the internet in a nutshell — “Because we CAN do this, we WILL do this.” Just go look for some shoes on Amazon. Every price/color combo is different. Actual stores don’t do that. They could. But they value things like not pissing off their customers.

We’re letting technology get ahead of basic human needs and shopping habits. It’s overwhelming.

I’ve taken to just mentally adding $100-$150 to every airline p rice I find in order to “normalize” it.

Nothing > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 11:52

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I read the attached article, it made me chuckle. “premium economy”. Avoid the optics of the situation. United knew full well they would have a completely empty section. Bump up some repeat customers. As far as the analogy, it’s pretty damn stupid. You can’t compare a service to a good.

I remember the days when you had to check in and see an actual gate agent person. 9 times our of 10, I’d get offered exit row because I’m tall. While uncommon now, there are still times on a flight where a flight attendant will offer me an exit row seat if there happens to be an empty one.

facw > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 11:53

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With Amazon shoes, the real problem is that even if you filter to a specific size, they still show you pricing that isn’t available for that size (and sometimes isn’t available for any size).

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion 09/09/2019 at 11:57

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The seats are all exactly the same. However, there is a perception with many that being closer to the front is better, partly because you can potentially get in and off faster. United is trading on that perception. 

MrSnrub > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 12:00

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That guy when he got off the plane, hopefully

AestheticsInMotion > Chariotoflove 09/09/2019 at 12:01

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Weird. I like how on delta I can pay a reasonable amount to upgrade to comfort+ (or whatever they call it) and get a significantly better product. Admittedly I first f ind the best value tickets to inform me of where I'm flying, which... Is probably backwards from what most people do. 

I’ve never understood that. I’d just as soon wait for everyone else to leave so I can get out calmy, at my leisure.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 12:01

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I will often be put on the bulkhead. My wife actually doesn’t like it because she loses the convenient storage space on the floor.

Anyway, if you charge more for an aisle seat because you acknowledge that  it’s less cramped feeling and the passenger can stretch his legs out, you are tacitly admitting that your plane is cramped and claustrophobic.

Ash78, voting early and often > facw 09/09/2019 at 12:03

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TRIGGERED.

So glad you’ve noticed this, too. I basically had to give up on them. Such a simple concept, yet they fail miserably at it.

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion 09/09/2019 at 12:06

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Yeah, I have no choice but to wait until everyone is off. I’ve learned to just relax and read a book or something. Just enjoy a few minimal of peace in my head until they co e for me.

Of course, I can’t get too relaxed. I have to pay attention. I have been forgotten once or twice. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 12:09

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It’s kinda hit and miss for me changing seats. Most of the time the flight attendant doesn’t care if it’s a Dash 8 and they don’t have a balance problem. Once you get onto a jet with classes, they don’t like you to switch classes, otherwise don’t really care. Alaska seems a bit more liberal with this than Delta.

All those fees mean is that the initial ticket price appears lower then you add on the extras... and you are back up to a profitable flight for the airline when you pay for a bag and seat selection or economy plus.

AestheticsInMotion > Chariotoflove 09/09/2019 at 12:10

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If you're the last person on the plane, ownership transfers to you. I'm pretty sure our resident lawyers will back me up on this

facw > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 12:16

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It’s my second least favorite thing about Amazon shopping (after products that are completely different being listed a variants, messing up reviews, Q&A, and of course price display).

ranwhenparked > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 12:23

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Well, they did allow me to move him to an identical room on another floor, because it was the same price. It was still kind of dirty, just not as bad.

ttyymmnn > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/09/2019 at 12:24

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Which is why I like Southwest’s model. You can pay to check in early, but after that, you just have to be quick on the check in 24 hours ahead.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 12:39

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I just booked 2 weeks out @ $500 for a round trip to Sacramento on Alaska. Flights from here to seattle are still full. Seattle to SMF, not so much.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 12:45

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I always find myself on American for similar consistency reasons, but also because they’re the only ones that ever seem to have flights to my destinations on the dates I want to travel.

American doesn’t seem to care much about seating. You get assigned seats but I’ve been on half empty flights where they let people just move around wherever as long as you don’t try to get into first class.

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion 09/09/2019 at 12:54

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Next time I’ll pack a flag and claim the thing for Oppo. 

AestheticsInMotion > Chariotoflove 09/09/2019 at 13:12

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What if instead of an Oppo meet, we just all get on the same long flight together and throw a party. I bet the regular fliers will love joining in with our taillight identification bingo, NPoCP, and heated debates over the best generation of 3 series (E46). 

fintail > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 09/09/2019 at 13:50

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I’ve only read about Wendy’s pulling it off.  Really, they need to all just keep away, there’s usually no way to win.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > facw 09/09/2019 at 14:17

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Kinda, still a massive fuckup

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion 09/09/2019 at 16:06

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Cool , but we’ll have take up a collection to hire a professional pilot, because none of ours will agree to stay sober.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Ash78, voting early and often 09/09/2019 at 20:40

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“E very price/color combo is different. Actual stores don’t do that. They could. But they value things like not pissing off their customers.”

That shadyness isn’t a bug, its a feature

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > ranwhenparked 09/09/2019 at 20:46

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When you’re renting the room by the hour, can’t you just cancel the rest of the night and go elsewhere?

f86sabre > ttyymmnn 09/09/2019 at 21:41

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Yep, really. Why? Two reasons. First, leisure travelers mostly picks tickets based on the lowest marketed price. So carriers try to get that initial displayed number as low as possible. Second, people pay for the option enough times to keep it there.

I understand the pain though. 

ttyymmnn > f86sabre 09/09/2019 at 23:00

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As I said, I was somewhat chagrined to see that your company is charging $70 for seat selection prior to check in. This whole nickel-and-dime business has gotten out of hand.